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> How to play 2149 mods!, Playing quest mods sequentially . . .
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Ronin49
post Sep 5 2004, 09:42 PM
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This is a reprint of freestonew's excellent thread by the same title in the previous ES Mod Forums.

**************************************************************

Yes, hello all....
I just re re re re installed mw this am, about 6 am.

I have now Learned a bit about proper proceedure!
one of my problems was that i wanted SO rich a mw world that my
data folders got too too messey: i wanted *ALL* the big wonderfull quest mods!
[of course i had to not use 50% of them as there were Conflicts! ]

so, as i now slowly begin to install mods....here is what i have learned...
and you *CAN play every single huge quest mod out there!!
do it, like people have suggested, the Sequencial neverwinter nights way: one at a time!!

well...here is my take, now, sports fans!

What I have begun to DO, is this......gotta have a bit of room on your hard drive, for this!

download all ya want to, a 1000 or more mods! put them in a folder called "mods". do not unzip them.
then.....take your fresh-installed game and fix the ini file for best framerate...etc..etc...
THEN....make a copy of that now-fixed ini file, and put it somewheres on your HD. make a backup, too, of your mw/tribunal/bloodmoon esm and bsa files too, in case mw crashes and ruins these files!!

next: out of the 1000 mods, choose mostly "envirnmemtal" mods, mods that make vanderfall/tribune/bloodmoon seem more alive! better npcs, better scenery, better monsters...etc..etc...
have indeed a richly alive main island! by not having *any* huge quest mods installed, why then you can even add MORE "envirnmental mods", without axing your framerate!

then check these in the conflict detector and the testool.
use the construction set if you want to.
BUT! before you run the conflict detector or testool, as the testool will change every mod, alter the esp for it, make a

BACKUP

of that Pristine data file, without the mw/tribune/bloodmoon esm/bsa files. this backup, of the mod esps/esms, will save your Hide, if the testool/conflict detector or gameplay ruins the mods!

now......fix it...detect it...fix your conflicts.....

say!
ya got 300 mods installed and it is way way over the limit of 256
mods [the mw/bloodmoon/tribunal esms and the other esms Count as part of that 256!]?!!
why------merge some of them in the construction set!
merge many many of them. stay away from merging involuted quest mods though. make *another* backup file for *each* batch of merged mods!! say, if you merged 15 mods into a new mod called "smalls", then make a filecopy folder somewheres that says "smalls"
and in it put a copy of those 15 esps. why?!! because on down the road you might find that there is a conflict with a newly installed mod with "smalls" and you could then go back and use those 15 mods to put back into your data folder so that you then could find that one out of 15 that conflicts! then remerge the 14, after you take that one conflicting mod out!

PLAY the game for awhile. get up to level 10 to 30: enjoy the scenry. make love with Pardners. kill things with pointy weapons. spelunk into caves.
*then* install a big quest mod.
play it dedicatedly.
finish it.
uninstall it, then go on to *another* big mod. you can thus play LOTS of huge mods this way.

better make yet *another* backup of your mods in your data file before playing that First Big Quest Mod, though!! and while you are at that, make about FOUR "good saves", in your savegames, at the last place that you were before trying to install your very first Big Quest Mod...so that you have a Reference point to go back to whenever you take that first big quest mod out and and the second one!
save your game in a cave or far far out in the wilderness away from npcs or towns, for this "Master Save", for when you begin Big Mods!

tip from burned experience on my part...when you save your game with all kinds of npc dialogues installed [pc voice...vgreetings...etc...etc....
it is a Goooood idea to save your game out away from a npc!
why?
because if there is a "missing script" with a nearby npc, when you reload, the error messege will come up, often *BEHIND* the screen of the game and it is unclickible for some systems!!

be sure to check, when adding and removing meshes/textures/icons, that when you install big meshy textury mods, that if you overwrite a file, and then later remove that file, you could remove a needed file for some other mod!

*this* way, i see now...is the way to play 1000 mods, without
a huge mess!!


...this is now my 35 cents worth!

freestone

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Armydude71490
post Sep 17 2004, 07:01 PM
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This is Confusing!
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VampyrPrince
post Sep 17 2004, 07:03 PM
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Joined: 17-April 04
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QUOTE(Armydude71490 @ Sep 17 2004, 08:01 PM)
This is Confusing!
*



thats wat i said when i first saw it and my opinion remains unchanged.......
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muhahaha
post Sep 17 2004, 07:30 PM
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W0W, W0W, etc.
:bolt: :shootme:
*speachless*
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Eirinjas
post Sep 17 2004, 07:32 PM
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Joined: 6-May 04




Would be easier to just tell people to install all visual and sound enhancements mods they want. Install the small quest plugins that are known to be clean. Then install, play, complete, and then uninstall the large landmass/quest mods one at a time to avoid major conflicts.

Still, it's not really all that helpful. The TESC is both a blessing and a curse. With all the conflicts I've come across I think it's more a curse.

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GateKeeper
post Sep 17 2004, 09:10 PM
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OR, you can do what some of us around here have done: clean each esp file you want to use, extract items with tesame, insert into blank esp file, repeat but now insert the new stuff into the prev new esp file....not hard, not confusing - but LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of work.... So far i've done that with 100+ mods (weapons, items, item changes, item additions, etc, etc..)....and that's only with my BASE esp file....I have a Creatures file, a Cities file, Sounds file, NPC file, and one other custom landmass file that doesn't conflict with anything whatsoever so i can add my own things into it along with Knight's Guild quests..... been working on them for over a year now (re-started once)....

So basically i have 200-300 files all 'combined' into about 5-6 esp files....None however have any quests or new landmass - i play those using their own cleaned esp file and then disable it when done (to avoid conflicts).

Would've been finished a lot sooner - but people keep pumping out good stuff to use!

This post has been edited by GateKeeper: Sep 17 2004, 09:12 PM
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Rastamage
post Sep 19 2004, 12:21 AM
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Joined: 19-August 03
From: New England, U.S.A.




QUOTE(GateKeeper @ Sep 17 2004, 10:10 PM)
OR, you can do what some of us around here have done: clean each esp file you want to use, extract items with tesame, insert into blank esp file, repeat but now insert the new stuff into the prev new esp file....not hard, not confusing - but LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of work.... So far i've done that with 100+ mods (weapons, items, item changes, item additions, etc, etc..)....and that's only with my BASE esp file....I have a Creatures file, a Cities file, Sounds file, NPC file, and one other custom landmass file that doesn't conflict with anything whatsoever so i can add my own things into it along with Knight's Guild quests..... been working on them for over a year now (re-started once)....

So basically i have 200-300 files all 'combined' into about 5-6 esp files....None however have any quests or new landmass - i play those using their own cleaned esp file and then disable it when done (to avoid conflicts).
*



I've decided this is the method I want to use to keep from getting all the conflicts I've been having trying to get all my chosen mods to work. Can you explain how or point me to a help article on this topic? It is pretty confusing. I've got "TES Plugin Conflict Detector," "TESTool," "TES Advanced Mod Editor," "Leveled List Resequencer," not to mention the Construction Set that came with the game!

I have no clue how to use all of these tools in conjunction to identify problems, fix them, and compile the related materials into smaller packages of mods. I see lots of help files for brand-newbies to unzip their stuff but intermediate manipulations where there are lots of steps doesn't seem to be covered as much. Any help?
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Rastamage
post Sep 19 2004, 12:43 AM
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From: New England, U.S.A.




I've also found a few more programs like ESPCleaner. I really am unsure what I'm supposed to do with all these programs if they don't merge the similiar mod changes and prevent missing objects.
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sunsi
post Sep 19 2004, 06:47 PM
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Oh I'm bookmarking this thread...priceless! :trophy:

As players add more and more mods then find out that MW refuses to load their game...they'll wish they had bookmarked this too. ^_^

Thank you, Ronin :)

:dancing:
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GateKeeper
post Sep 19 2004, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(Rastamage @ Sep 19 2004, 01:21 AM)
I've decided this is the method I want to use to keep from getting all the conflicts I've been having trying to get all my chosen mods to work.  Can you explain how or point me to a help article on this topic?  It is pretty confusing.  I've got "TES Plugin Conflict Detector," "TESTool," "TES Advanced Mod Editor," "Leveled List Resequencer," not to mention the Construction Set that came with the game! 

I have no clue how to use all of these tools in conjunction to identify problems, fix them, and compile the related materials into smaller packages of mods.  I see lots of help files for brand-newbies to unzip their stuff but intermediate manipulations where there are lots of steps doesn't seem to be covered as much.  Any help?
*





I only use Tesame and and the plugin conflict detector program.... don't use the ESP cleaner as that sometimes undoes changes you actually want to keep....

To learn about how to use the editor and other relevant help areas:

http://66.106.110.151/Morrowind/Thanos_Tower/tutorials.html

To use Tesame to clean a mod:
1) Load the specific plugin into TES (without any other mod selected besides the Bethesda .esm files).
2) Load the exact same esp into Tesame.
3) Each item listed in the opened file in Tesame means that it has been changed from its original values or it's something new added by the mod. You have to keep checking back and forth between Tesame and TES and whatever item is located in original areas of the game, right-click them in Tesame. Of course this doesn't apply if let's say you opened up a guard npc armour replacer mod and in tesame you see that Npc - Indoril guard is there...don't right click the item just because you know the npc was there originally from Bethesda because the mod you opened is supposed to change that item.... Sometimes it's obvious what shouldn't have been changed, sometimes you have no clue...
4) Once you've gone through the list and right-clicked any changes that shouldn't have happened...press Delete button to delete everything you have right clicked (right click again to de-select something if you chose it my accident).
5) Go to the menu bar area and save the file....It's a good idea NOT to over-write your original.
6) Close TES. Re-open and load the newly 'created' esp file....if no errors are given - most likely everything is ok.... You make mistakes at the beginning, but with more knowledge and experience you'll learn what to delete and what not to delete....


Some may find it complicated, and it was at the beginning (more tiresome), but i got better with use....been doing this since day 1.... I even made my own Balmora expansion like the newly released mod (using the Balmora Trading city and Walled Balmora), but I never wanted to release it....it used other mod's interiors and there were no quests....it was more visually appeasing than the released mod - but a REAL fps killer.... :( Anyways, I don't even use it anymore as i'd rather have my fps...........


Oopps....forgot how to merge mods:

Best way:

1) Open file 1 in Tesame.
2) Select all items and right click or press spacebar.
3) Go to menu bar under Items...and select Save As. Enter a file name (don't worry, it saves it as an .esd file and does not overwrite your esp file).
4) Open esp file 2
5) Go to menu bar and select Items...select Insert....choose the .esd file you just created....
6) After the items have been inserted by Tesame, go to File and save the file as a new esp file (new name). Finished!

This post has been edited by GateKeeper: Sep 19 2004, 07:22 PM
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Rastamage
post Sep 19 2004, 07:50 PM
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Joined: 19-August 03
From: New England, U.S.A.




QUOTE(GateKeeper @ Sep 19 2004, 08:18 PM)
I only use Tesame and and the plugin conflict detector program.... Oopps....forgot how to merge mods:

Best way:

1) Open file 1 in Tesame.
2) Select all items and right click or press spacebar.
3) Go to menu bar under Items...and select Save As.  Enter a file name (don't worry, it saves it as an .esd file and does not overwrite your esp file).
4) Open esp file 2
5) Go to menu bar and select Items...select Insert....choose the .esd file you just created....
6) After the items have been inserted by Tesame, go to File and save the file as a new esp file (new name).  Finished!
*



I tried this and it seems simple enough. But when I examined the merge I found that the object in question (in this case the Creeper) was doubled up in the mod. Is this the way it is supposed to be?

I tried looking at the same mods in the TES Plugin Conflict Detector. I got confused in the detector looking at this because it lists two "AIDT" IDs when I compare the mods. One has data of "320000640060E7770334A000" and the other "3200006400FFFFFFFF37A000." I have no real clue what to do manipulating this. I know one plugin changes Creeper's location and the other his gold. I am at a complete loss on what to do to merge these without overriding one mod at the expense of the other.
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freestone
post Sep 20 2004, 08:02 AM
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Joined: 10-September 04
From: tallahassee, fla,usa




QUOTE(Ronin49 @ Sep 5 2004, 10:42 PM)
This is a reprint of freestonew's excellent thread by the same title in the previous ES Mod Forums.

**************************************************************

Yes, hello all....
I just re re re re installed mw this am, about 6 am.

I have now Learned a bit about proper proceedure!------


--------------------------------



*this* way, i see now...is the way to play 1000 mods, without
a huge mess!!
...this is now my 35 cents worth! 

freestone
*



Thanks Ronin49!

Today, sept 20, I have about 300 mods, mostly "envirnmental"
mods, Combined to 150, or so.

I Just now begun a NEW game, after getting wilderness 2.0.

*another* pointer, from experience: do not add a complicated mod to your ongoing game unless you know how to do it, even if the mod installs ok, many of its features might not show up in your game! i added the "nest" mod, for critters, during my last game, and now i see that Nests show up where they did not before! Try to only install "sinple" mods during the game.

another small observation: adding all the dogs and cats, from the mods that add them, to all the towns, really hits your frame rates where it hurts the most, in the town squares!

Anyway, thanks for reviving the thread, my "typing" is not so good as i have to "hunt and peck" at 5 wpm, i have to think about what to write
*AS* i have to counsciously look at each and every key: 'caps' are not an option, for me, as if i did them i would not be able to think at all, as i write! [ i note that several people did not understand my way of writing, in the thread!]

--another tip for good play: always wait a second or three after saving, and after coming out into a new area, as the computer is still processing the files, an immediate start could "break' a fileload....read:CRASH later in that cell!

---do not use the testool to merge dialogues except for perhaps "vgreetings/pc voice"!! "off island" [vardenvall] mods dialogue-merged, gives to me weird and terrible dialogue mixups!

---be carefull that you do not use several versions of the same mod!
sometimes a "fix" is the whole esp-file, alone, like of the "MCA 3.1 esm" fix. it replaces the old 3.0 esm file, tis would be easy for many to end up using *both* mca 3.0 and mca 3.1!

always make backups, for if you have the hd space for it!

onwards....freestone
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GateKeeper
post Sep 20 2004, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE(Rastamage @ Sep 19 2004, 08:50 PM)
I tried this and it seems simple enough.  But when I examined the merge I found that the object in question (in this case the Creeper) was doubled up in the mod.  Is this the way it is supposed to be?

I tried looking at the same mods in the TES Plugin Conflict Detector.  I got confused in the detector looking at this because it lists two "AIDT" IDs when I compare the mods.  One has data of "320000640060E7770334A000" and the other "3200006400FFFFFFFF37A000."  I have no real clue what to do manipulating this.  I know one plugin changes Creeper's location and the other his gold.  I am at a complete loss on what to do to merge these without overriding one mod at the expense of the other.
*





Tesame can't be used to merge 2 item changes into one...only the newer change will take effect....use testool (?) for that

You have doubling because you didn't do a clean save....i don't touch plugins after i've started a game....

I only merge things when there's something i want from a mod...like if there's a mod that has an armor i like but has quests to get it, i extract the armour and body parts out of that esp and then insert the items into my base esp file..........

You shouldn't be doing stuff without first learning what everything is in tesame (ex codes) and be familiar with tes.... you could but you'll probably screw something up.....that's why not too many people do it...

This post has been edited by GateKeeper: Sep 20 2004, 04:59 PM
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Rastamage
post Sep 20 2004, 05:07 PM
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Joined: 19-August 03
From: New England, U.S.A.




QUOTE(GateKeeper @ Sep 20 2004, 05:58 PM)
You have doubling because you didn't do a clean save....i don't touch plugins after i've started a game....
*



I don't have any saves. This is a clean install. I ended up spending time with TES Plugin Conflict Detector and TESTool. Between the two of them and the Construction Set I think (I hope!) that I am getting this right. At least now when I load the game and start a new one to check for conflicts and errors the game is loading clean every time.
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freestone
post Sep 22 2004, 09:03 AM
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Joined: 10-September 04
From: tallahassee, fla,usa




QUOTE(freestone @ Sep 20 2004, 09:02 AM)
Thanks  Ronin49!

Today, sept 20, I have about 300 mods, mostly "envirnmental"
mods, Combined to 150, or so.

I Just now begun a NEW game, after getting wilderness 2.0.



onwards....freestone
*



thanks to
http://www.mwmythicmods.com/starting.htm
This is a Saved Thread, go there to see other helpfull tips.

I will now rummage around my memory to see what other things I have learned. i have YET to get beyond Sedya, in a month, so many wonderfull mods have come out!

---I have found that setting my sound acceleration to "basic", or to "standard" if the sound is not good, in the "multimedia" section of the systems control panel, really REALLY helps "stutterings", especially at low fps, as the soundcard depends upon the cpu for processing the music and the sounds, unlike the video card! thus when there are many many sounds going at once, the game pauses. Also, i found sounds that i never heard before, when i did this, like of the creaking of the wood, on the decks and the bridges!!

---there is a GREAT problem that surfaces when one has many mods and then one begins to uninstall a mod or two!! As I added mod after mod, sooner than later, one of the placing of textures or meshes will bring up a window that says that the file is already present, do you want to overwrite it? I go ahead and do this, now that one file is doing "double-duty" for two mods. just like the shared files in windows!! with the same problems! that is...if you remove these meshes, when and if you uninstall that mod, you remove the mesh
for the OTHER mod too!!
[pumaman outright says, in the readme, for Wilderness 2.0...
"do not use the uninstaller for this mod, as the install overwrites mod files and other mods will be broken and you will then have to reinstall them!"]
It could be a pain to find what mod misses its files until you begin the game only to read that error messege, or worse...see a big yellow
something in your view!

---I use the Conflict Detector to check each new mod. i can check
just one mod against all of them. If there is a landmass conflict between two mods, often that is not "real"! "same cell conflict" means two "somethings" in the same cell. often they are far apart.
but if there are three or more such warnings about one mod, then ye might have a Problem! Obscure warnings prevented me from installing a certain bird mod, in Solestein, when no one else seemed to have a problem, only later did everyone find that a patch was needed! "common sense" indicates..."just what damage can a animal mod do: it just places animals around the land"! well...the Conflict detector said otherwise! but then one can "over-react" and not use conflicting mods that are otherwise good to use together!
use Judgement.

---Testool is good too, for checking conflicts. do NOT use the "dialogue merge" option, with testool! does not seem to work well, in my opinion! Be aware that sometimes the merged lists do NOT always sit at the bottom of the list where they are supposed to be after creation of them! check your list, then re-timestamp them!
too...if you use the testool with a LOT of mods, and HUGE filesize mods, there is a limit, especially in the "item/object merge list", of how many mods can be checked against. the Tool will give a "illegal operation' error messege when its buffers fill up!
SOLUTION...uncheck mods that you "think" are not contributing items
that conflict, like some house mods, game changing mods, etc...and run the list again. you might have to rerun it several times to get the amount of mods down enough. the other day, i had to try three times. then just recheck them after the list is made.

---you cannot run more than 256 mods at one time! this counts the esms of the two expansions too!
hooooever!! one can Combine mods in the construction set!
i have combined maybe 80 to 100 mods, so to give to me "150" mods!

the "find" files or folders, window tool, i use a lot to find mod files, in my backup of all the mods that i use. i have this backup of ALL my currant mods, including the meshes, textures...etc. sometime i use the "find word in files" option, to find just one filename, in some mesh folder of some mod.

---CHOKE. I was very surprised, on the first time that i used a regestry cleaner [norton system works and vcom systemsuite]. each and eveytime that a zip file is unzipped, or some other "unzipper" is used, a regestry entry is made for that zip file. thus when you toss out the zip file, to save space on your hd, and just keep the unzipped mod, that regestry entry, being still there, windows always has to "deal" with it!!! Same goes if you MOVE a mod file from one folder to another!!! "!!!' indeed, as if you have unzipped 300 mods, or moved 300+ mods, in the course of a year, you have given windows 300+ error registry entries to deal with, eating up cpu cycles!! move 300 and unzipped 300: that is 600 regestry errors!!
Use A Regestry Cleaner Now!

--Plan a bit: if you LOVE monsters, then add a lot of monster mods!
like giants ultimate, or Additions or Advanced. but be aware if you just like to "tourist' the countryside, you might have a monster every 30 feet to deal with if you have lots of monster mods, mods that are NOT easy to uninstall if you do not like them! add you mods accordingly.

---finally, try to "Choose" a Time to really *really* begin your game!!
I have re-begun my game so often that i just know that census office by heart, by now! Each and everytime i begin a Real Good Mod comes out, i begin again! other games gather dust on my shelves!

enough for now
enjoy your many many mods....freestone
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Dragon32
post Sep 22 2004, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(Rastamage @ Sep 20 2004, 01:50 AM)
I tried looking at the same mods in the TES Plugin Conflict Detector.  I got confused in the detector looking at this because it lists two "AIDT" IDs when I compare the mods.  One has data of "320000640060E7770334A000" and the other "3200006400FFFFFFFF37A000."  I have no real clue what to do manipulating this.  I know one plugin changes Creeper's location and the other his gold.  I am at a complete loss on what to do to merge these without overriding one mod at the expense of the other.
*



OK, IANAM (I Am Not A Modder) but that hex string contains all sorts of gubbins relating to Creeper (like gold and location). Unfortunately, using TESPCD it's impossible (at least for me) to work out what each charcater in the string refers to.

I ran into this when attempting to merge Wakim's Game Improvements and Weapon Range Balance, at least in that example I had a number of examples to work from. I could compare the value for a number of swords, axes etc in morrowind.esm to Weapon Range Balance.esp and Wakim's Game Improvement 9.esp, work out where in the string the weapon range was set and change those characters only in the wakim esp and then merge the esps without needing Weapon Range Balance.esp. It's a faff though.

(I then found a problem which is that I'd set TESPCD to ignore conflicts for LEVI and LEVC, i.e. levelled item and creature lists, because I thought TESTool would take care of that for me, so I ended up losing a load of stuff from my levelled lists - watch out for this, check Operations | Options | Conflicts, I ended up with only the most recent plugin's levelled lists appearing in my merged mods).

Getting back to your point, it's probably worth picking one of the 2 plugins (i) location, or (ii) more money, looking at what it does in TES:CS and then making that same change to the other plugin and just using one. Or use TESTool and merge objects (so that Creeper, an object, inherits the changes from both plugins).

Hope this helps.
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